Posted by a.k. on 12/1/2000, 12:51 pm
Could we have a little exchange on Zhang Zao Dong's bagua.... i practice this and have met adepts in taiwan and china. I know Wang shu-chin learned directly from Zhang...... what was his teaching pattern, in terms of skills, changes, concepts...how did he bring someone to level of fighting skill etc.??

my practice focuses on first and second change , first as fixed step , or foundation level....then as fighting forms which are much more dynamic and practical. then a series of nei-gung .of course then we fight . i guess Zhang as a bounty hunter would have kept it simple and powerful . this form seems very simple compared to a lot of fancy motions i saw out there. but it sure seems to work well under pressure!

any comments on your methods?

wishing you peace
Posted by PD on 12/1/2000, 3:47 pm
Hi AK, It seems that the two main representations of Zhang Zhaodong’s bagua in Europe and the US are those taught by Jiang Rongqiao and Wang Shujin. I have only seen Jiang’s form once and know little about his basic training, emphasis etc so can’t really comment –maybe that’s your area? The main components taught in Wang’s bagua (as taught by my teacher I should add since there slight differences between the different disciples) are:

1. Standing post (zhanzhuang)

2. Single movement practice (danlian) alone and with partner and stretching/strengthening exercises

3. Circle walking with static upper body postures

4. Fixed step linking palms - eight palms changes aimed to train the eight basic energies/powers/techniques (tui, tuo, dai, ling, ban ,kou, pi,jin)

5. The flowing dragon rambling body palm (long xing you shen zhang) which is fluid step, faster, continuous and so forth – it follows the principle of‘…one gives rise to two, two to three, three to the ten thousand things…’ (yi sheng er er sheng san san sheng wanwu –) idea found in the Dao Dejing in that it goes from very simple to very complex, adding complexity in each change.

6. Bagua ‘push hands’

7. Application, including fixed but heavy emphasis on free sparring and fighting

8. Weapons (double sword and staff)

Let me begin by saying that my impression of Master Wang’s teaching is that he was very direct and taught by application and fighting. Forms, for instance, were merely a way of developing certain powers, fluidity and qi in preparation for fighting. Wang Shujin used very few techniques when fighting and those he used were direct and extremely powerful.He was also left handed which surprised many of his opponents as left handedness is most often ‘corrected’ in China in youth as it is considered outside the norm. Even if many fighters develop both sides in their practice, most have a strong side and a weak side, the strong side being the right.Wang’s most powerful side was his left. His forms reflected his philosophy of simplicity and basics and are, compared to other bagua forms, very simple and sometimes bland in external appearance .They are, however, also very powerful and practical. Students were taught by asking how to fight/defend themselves against such and such an attack and by fighting other schools of martial arts in free fighting tournaments. Wang encourage exploration of the basic principles of fighting and was not a big proponent of fixed two-person sets.

Wang taught all three internal arts to students, beginning with Taiji, then xingyi and finally bagua. In this sense he followed Dong Haichuan’s method of teaching bagua only to those who already had martial arts skills, and also his own teacher’s progression from xingyi to bagua. I’ve seen some films of Wang’s bagua application and it certainly had a xingyi flavour to it. It was direct and without superfluous movements. This was not only a result of his training but also his physical size which made direct techniques and applications more natural to him than more twisting, coiling and evasive etc.

I won’t go into the taiji and xingyi here but rather concentrate on bagua and the basics as taught by wang. Please keep in mind, though, that taiji and xingyi were taught first before bagua and thus may be considered kind of a basis for wang’s bagua teaching, or at least a foundation all students who studied his bagua had.

Wang’s bagua system starts students from stillness in zhan zhuang postures, first double weighted and later 60/40 weighted. These are aimed at building roots, relaxation, calm and qi. The second component, and one of the most important ones in terms of power and martial application I think, is the practice of single movements. These consist of palm, fist and leg exercises aimed at developing gong li, or power. They are practiced first standing in 60/40 posture and then with moving steps on a straight line. For example, left piercing palm (chuan zhang) will be practiced 60 repetitions on the left and 60 reps on the right. There is an assortment of these exercises such as piercing, slapping, shaking and the five elements of xingyi and so forth. Especially in the beginning, I used to feel my arms were about to fall off and my legs were like cooked spaghetti (not al dente!). These exercises also build coordination and unity of the upper and lower body. We call it jiu gong gui yi which means nine palaces return to one point, meaning the body acts as one unit and all power is concentrated in any given technique, point. The mental aspect of this training is very important. Wang delivered tremendously painful and dangerous strikes and my teacher is the same. I was once hit by him so badly I felt all my internal organs had been crushed. It wasn’t serious though and after sitting down for a while, everything was fine but I did think I needed to be rushed to hospital. My teacher did not use full force in any way and I hope he never does. Anyway, jiu gong gui yi is an important part of Wang’s practice and all the single movements are aimed at developing that kind of coordinated, unified power for application. There are also single movements for kicking, mainly low outer or inner kicks, the most common being at the end of Wang’s single palm change with the first bai step. Again, Wang’s physique did not encourage anything higher but kicking knees and shins is the most effective anyway and it doesn’t affect your balance or defense either!

What is important to remember with the single movements is that they are not used in isolation but rather combined in numerous ways. Thus, the basics are extremely simple and straight-forward and also very thoroughly built in to the practitioner. The real challenge is combining them creatively and effectively in practice! Nevertheless, the foundation for that level is established through the zhanzhuang and danlian.

Which brings us to the circle walking. Again, Wang emphasised a natural gate rather than toe first like many practioners do. We practice the circle walking in a circle, in an eight crossing through the middle of the circle, and through the nine palaces of the Luoshu. The eight is important in terms of application as it allows for extremely fast deflection and circling to the outside of the opponent. Wang’s circle walking is done from heel to toe,with the inner foot’s toes at an angle inward (bai) and the outer foot toes also slightly inward (kou). It’s a very natural, relaxed gate and, in my opinion, the most useful in sparring. I feel that the more natural it is the more likely you are to use it in practice. We practice walking at a middle level most of the time although when practicing the rambling body palm it is often done with a high, mobile posture in order to allow lightning fast changes and movement.

The linking form, as I mentioned earlier, is designed to develop certain energies. The single palm change contains in itself four of them: tui tuo dai ling and is therefore, as we know , the basis for all other bagua application. But the value of the single palm change really goes beyond that. It helps develop two important bagua fighting principles: evasion and palm change (meaning palm change in relation to an opponents attack – that is getting either inside or outside an opponent’s ‘doors’ by quickly switching palms ). Wang’s single palm change is extremely practical and therefore is less coiling than some other systems. It basically consists of three stages: 1) covering (kou) which can be seen in the crouching tiger posture, 2) the beginning of the palm change which consists of forward movement and tui +tuo and 3) the actual change of palms. This change can be more properly seen in the rambling body palm. In the linking palms it is more static and difficult to see.


Posted by PD on 12/2/2000, 2:21 pm
Hi again! Wang's changes in the Lianhuan form (linking palms) are there to build the eight main powers of his ba gua and basic principles of application (primarily through the single and double palm changes - they are the principle basis for bagua application) rather than as definitive techniques to be used directly. I would not take any of the forms as literal applications, but I try to avoid that in taiji too contrary to many of my taiji friends. They don't necessarily work as a whole. Wang Shujin intended each one to train a power and in the second form, the youshen zhang, which is considered the 'moving form' (huo jiazi) in contrast to the fixed form of the linking palms (ding jiazi) and the free changing form (bian jiazi), we explore numerous ways these powers can be combined. Even the Youshen zhang form cannot in any way exhaust the thousands of possibilities. It just helps the student along the way and gives a good guideline to what is possible. The theory of the Zhou Yi (Book of Changes) is extremely important, not so much in detail, but as general principles that teach us that continuous change is at the basis of our ability to adapt to our opponent and should be the basis of our practice as a whole. The beauty of Bagua, at least at an advanced level, is the practitioner's ability to adapt naturally and seemingly effortlessly to the opponent. Just like with the eight trigrams which are combined to form hexagrams, so we use the 8 powers found in the lianhuan form to produce practical combinations in sparring. It is only limited by the individual practioner's creativity, experience and ingenuity. I feel these principles are also very applicable to everyday life situations, conflicts, decision making and so forth.